Speaker A I think that most of these frameworks, what I found is that the basic rule applies as the same as level of work. You can't see it until you see it, and once you see it, you can't not see it. The reality that I'm trying to articulate and describe is so overwhelming that once you see it, you can never not see it. But until you see it, it's unbelievably difficult. I worked quite a bit with my wife partner, Verity Goitin, who had a small group around me when I was doing my consulting work. And then slowly at that stop that she's continued working me, and she's always acted as someone who would read my drafts and I would bounce things. And she's a very down to earth person. And I knew if I couldn't explain to her, then there was something terribly wrong. And furthermore, if she couldn't explain to someone else, then there was something terribly wrong. In other words, I was using Blani or I was confoling myself. And I remember one occasion it's quite a long time ago now, of course, in the early days of writing, working with values, and for some reason at the time, I don't quite know what it was anyway, I sent her out to talk to, I think, a priest about values. We were trying to actually get some work, whatever, and she was reduced to confusion by the questions asked by the priest about it and came back and was embarrassed. I felt absolutely terrible. I'd put her in that situation and it was clear we had not understood what social values were and had not made the distinctions between the different levels of value. And I was sort of embarrassed and shocked and apologized, of course, because to my wife, I should never have put her in that situation or anybody. And it was a real lesson to me. You can't see it until you see it, so you can know it's there. You can know there's an entity there. You have a lot of feel for what it is, but you have to articulate and articulate and articulate and try it and get the properties. And then eventually, somehow, of course, and then once you've reached that point, you wonder, why was this so difficult? And what might take us sort of six months in terms of mentality, to work out? You can explain to people in an hour or half an hour because you've spent six months or a year in some cases, or a couple of years in some cases, just keeping at it and trying to penetrate the essence. I think the important thing to understand is that this world of psychosocial entities is a world of forms, right? It's forms and energy as distinct from quality and quantity. In the real world, in the material world, there's quality and quantity. Things have quality and quantity. In this psychosocial world or personal world or experiential world, things have form and energy. You don't get the energy unless you get the form right. They go together. The form itself and the name generate the energy that's appropriate for that particular entity. That's how it works. And that's why when you communicate and people respond and it functions.
